Difference Makers Podcast
We created this podcast in order to celebrate the lives and work of people who have transformed communities, businesses, and the wider world, making a real difference in the lives of others. We call them "Difference Makers". Some overcame great personal adversity in their journey. They all showed the knowledge, perspective, skills and capabilities to lead, to achieve, and to make real change when it is needed most. Oh, and by the way... they are all Chartered Accountants!
Find out more at https://www.charteredaccountantsworldwide.com
Difference Makers Podcast
Difference Makers Discuss Special Edition - Driving Global Sustainability: The Role of Chartered Accountants in Shaping a Sustainable Future
Have you ever wondered how the accounting profession can drive global sustainability? In this special edition of Difference Makers Discuss Live, join us for a fascinating conversation between Ainslie van Onselen, Chair of CAW & CEO of CA ANZ, and Jessica Fries, Executive Chair of A4S and a leading authority in sustainability and integrated reporting.
Jessica offers a compelling look at the transition from voluntary to mandatory sustainability practices, driven by global standards like those from the International Sustainability Standards Board (ISSB).
She discusses the potential pitfalls of fragmentation and the crucial role that chartered accountants play in shaping frameworks, providing strategic guidance, and ensuring that social and environmental factors are comprehensively analyzed.
But that's not all. We also unpack how authenticity and purpose are vital in attracting new talent to the accounting profession, showcasing inspiring examples like Julie Brown, CFO of GSK.
Gain insights on the importance of networking, continuous learning, and taking bold risks as a leader, along with practical advice for small and medium practices on enhancing their sustainability capabilities.
Tune in for a richly informative conversation designed to inspire and inform, as we navigate the evolving landscape of sustainability within accounting careers.
Hello and welcome to this special edition of Difference Makers Discuss Live. I'm Ainsley van Otselen, chair of Chartered Accountants Worldwide and CEO of CA ANZ. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Jessica Frieses, a Distinguished Authority in Sustainability and Integrated Reporting. She's a Chartered Accountant and a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants England and Wales. Jessica currently serves as the Executive Chair of A4S, which was initiated by King Charles when he was the Prince of Wales. Its aim is to address modern challenges with contemporary decision-making and reporting systems.
Ainslie van Onselen:Jessica's remarkable career encompasses the establishment and leadership of the International Integrated Reporting Council, the IIRC, and significant contributions at PwC, where she guided numerous organisations in embedding sustainability into their core strategies. With extensive experience in engaging with policy makers, regulators, companies and investors, jessica has been pivotal in promoting sustainability practices on a global scale. She is also a respected author and speaker with a strong academic foundation, including a Masters of Science in Economics from the London School of Economics and a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from the University of Cambridge. Jessica, welcome to Difference Makers Discuss Live. I know things have been quite eventful for you lately, what with opening the London Stock Exchange and hosting the 20th anniversary of A4S. So, jessica, tell me how you view the global landscape in sustainability at the moment.
Jessica Fries:I think we're just celebrating A4S's 20th anniversary and so we've been spending quite a lot of time looking back at the developments over the last 20 years but really thinking about what progress or where we've got to now and where we need to get to in the future. And if I look at that piece around the here and now, one of the areas where we've seen huge progress and is a real focus for everyone in the accounting community at the moment is, of course, reporting. Focus for everyone in the accounting community at the moment is, of course, reporting. So it's something A4S, as you touched on, has been involved in a lot of the key developments over the years and I think we're really finally starting to see that shift from voluntary to mandatory sustainability reporting. We have the International Sustainability Standards Board, so their standards are now out there and starting to be adopted by governments and regulators around the world, and recently, an important MOU between ISSB and GRI so that you have that complete set of, or suite of, reporting standards and the commitment from them to be working together. So I think that continued progress of convergence and enabling companies really to have the reporting standards and frameworks to enable them to report on their impacts and dependencies and the risks and opportunities that they face from sustainability. So I think that's a huge development. Um, of course, you're increasingly therefore getting the finance community accountants um engaging in and taking responsibility for the reporting and disclosure and the assurance of that information. So that's probably the biggest shift that is front and centre of many in the profession.
Jessica Fries:At the moment, we work with a lot of companies and investors and regulators and, of course, the professional bodies, helping them to navigate through some of these changes and and really practical guidance to to be prepared.
Jessica Fries:But of course, reporting, we always say, is a means to an end, not the end in itself, not reporting for reporting. So exactly, yeah, and I do think, if you look at the, that there is a risk of fragmentation, so different jurisdictions going down their own route. So I think that we're doing quite a lot of work to advocate for the need for global standards and global consistency, but a lot of our work is also on everything that comes before reporting. So how do you really understand some of the social and environmental trends that organizations are having to navigate, of that changing sustainability landscape, in terms of those, whether it's climate change, or nature and biodiversity or the whole range of sort of social impacts and human capital at an organisation is really important to its survival and the impact that it can have on the world. So understanding which of those trends the organisation can respond to, how it can position itself to take advantage of any opportunities in solving those issues, but also, importantly, really integrating an effective response to the risks into every decision that gets taken.
Ainslie van Onselen:So you talked about sort of the role of the profession and, as you know, I'm Chair of Chartered Accountants Worldwide, so it would be remiss of me not to ask, I think, what do you think of specifically, the role of the Chartered Accountancy profession in supporting the sustainability goals, supporting global unification of standards, et cetera? What's your views on that?
Jessica Fries:firstly, it is using its influence to help make sure that the frameworks, the standards, the regulations that are being put in place quite rapidly now are going to drive meaningful progress and action and really create that baseline of information upon which decisions have to be built. If I think of the work we do with investors, they really want to see that information being disclosed so that they can decide where they're going to be investing, and a lot of them have made net zero commitments or commitments around some of the social outcomes or broader environmental outcomes that they see as critical to the investments that they are taking. And so I think that enabling that flow of information is key. No-transcript, who are in practice providing that advice to companies? But I would say as well, one of the things that that a lot of the um, the accountants we work with, also talk about is is the fact that um, you know, particularly accountants in business are often the ones holding the purse strings, yes, but also um from an advisory nature.
Jessica Fries:Those in in practice provide advice, strategic advice, often to organizations. So, again, this isn't just about the reporting, no, really thinking about um you know, key investment decisions that might be being made now, so how can accountants really help to make sure that the analysis that's being undertaken really takes into account that full set of information of all of the different capitals that an organisation relies on, not just financial.
Ainslie van Onselen:It certainly feels, I think, from a global perspective, that the world has sort of woken up from its chrysalis almost, and there is, I think, a sense of agency and a sense of urgency to this issue. And chartered accountants obviously they're very good at ensuring that there's consistent, reliable, accurate data that can be measured, sort of on an even playing field. So there's certainly a role there to play to not only, as you say, do the preparing and the reporting, but also to advocate to the stakeholders that they influence, particularly in respect to strategic decisions from the ground up. So I definitely agree with that. In terms of what are you seeing as some of the key sort of global international trends or developments that chartered accountants should be aware of? Is there anything that you want to add there?
Jessica Fries:Well, we've touched quite a bit on the reporting side of things. I think, two other trends that are really key. One is around the whole discussion of transition planning and transition finance. So a lot of organisations, and indeed governments, have set net zero goals, yes, and there's a huge role that the profession can play in helping whether it's organizations or indeed nations, to translate those goals into action. Um, and that is particularly the measurement side of things. So how do you not, how do you go from what can be a very long-term target into, embedded into the, into the financial planning processes, and also setting near-term goals? So we find that the accounting community has a vital role to play in making some of these commitments real. The other thing that I would add to that is, then, with the scale of the crisis when it comes to climate, are starting to see the impact of climate in their lives, personal and professional lives Well.
Ainslie van Onselen:I'm from Australia, so the amount of severe adverse weather events that we've had, I think, has really made the broader population realise that this is a now issue, not a future issue.
Jessica Fries:Absolutely, and I mean so. We've just been having our annual A4S summit. Yes, tell me about that. Well, so we've just been having our annual A4S summit and the virtual summit. We were speaking to quite a few scientists and you know these are all available for people if they did want to watch them on demand. But I think that it's. You know, if you speak to some of the scientists, it is that focus on both. The vast majority of people understand, understand that urgency. So it's how do we enable action to be taken? But I think the other um looming crisis that increasingly organizations are grappling with and trying to think through what their response is, but much earlier in really that um, understanding of how, how can I have an impact, is around nature and biodiversity. Yes, so there it is. The next frontier is there might be starting to see that impact, yeah, but, but that's where we're doing quite a lot of work to help help accountants and another finance and accounting professionals to really respond yeah, and we've.
Ainslie van Onselen:We've got S1, we've got S2 related to climate disclosure. Some countries around the world are legislating for that In terms of nature and biodiversity. How far do you think we are from? I know you're not a standard setter, but how far do you think we are in terms of getting some clarity on that?
Jessica Fries:So um task force for nature related financial disclosures has been been doing some fantastic work. So if people haven't um already looked at their framework, I would really recommend looking at the work that they've done. There's also a lot of other organizations that they if you go onto their website, that they point you towards who can really help to do some of that step by step um getting to grips with it and responding. Something that they talk about is also not feeling overwhelmed by um trying to look at, look at perfection, make sure you know, not feel like you need all of the data, all of the systems in place first. So maybe starting with governance and starting to think through you know how might some of these issues be relevant for you.
Jessica Fries:But the, the tnfds work um. You've also just at one final point on that, you've also got a lot of companies who've started to um adopt the framework. So you've got some great examples that you can look to to get some inspiration from. But that then connects to the work that a lot of organisations might have done on climate. So you touch on ISSB's two standards. They've already announced that biodiversity is going to be one of the next steps that they look to. Gri already has a standard out on that recently released, so there are some places that you can go to to help, but also that signal that this is something that is going to be coming down the line.
Ainslie van Onselen:From a reporting perspective, it's important to start thinking about it now, and I think that's one thing that the child accountant profession can certainly do is to continue to educate its members, its stakeholders, government, et cetera that it deals with in terms of what is happening down the line. Perhaps, maybe let's just move to the future generation, so the young budding accountant that might be out there at the moment and may not even realise that they're a young budding accountant at this point. What role do you think the next generation of chartered accountants, how do you think they can play their role in advancing sustainability? What's your thoughts on that?
Jessica Fries:Back to the point you were making earlier about just some of the urgency of action when it comes to sustainability.
Jessica Fries:We really feel that accountants, at every stage in their career, have the opportunity and the need to be leading in our response. There are an increasing number of roles that are explicitly in the sustainability accounting space, so we're starting to see more and more ESG controller or sustainability accountant roles and so, I think, huge opportunity from a professional perspective to specialize in some of these areas and more and more organizations really recruiting individuals who have both that accounting finance background and the knowledge of some of the sustainability issues, particularly when it comes to things like how do you account for the information, the controls, the reporting side of things. But I would say, not only those who want to specialise. It's something that, for those coming into the profession now, there is a real opportunity to influence the decisions that your organisation is taking, no matter what part of the profession you're working within. So I think that really making sure that you're understanding some of those trends and raising them and using your voice to influence your peers and those within the organisation more broadly so on that.
Ainslie van Onselen:So a lot of the accounting bodies not all around the world do have an issue in attracting talent to the profession. I know in my home country, australia, the number of accounting students doing accounting finance which is the majority of our pipeline into the CA designation has halved in 10 years, which is and we're not the only profession. I think engineering has a similar trend and this is shared in other bodies around the world, but, as I said, not all. So how do you think we can attract young people who are not sure what they're doing, whether they're going into fintech or whether they're going into start-ups or the gig economy? But how can we really attract them? Do you think into becoming chartered accountants, but with that sustainability lens? What ideas do you have for us there?
Jessica Fries:So there's a lot of evidence that people want to have a real purpose and impact in their work. Now you have to be quite careful not to stereotype by what you know by different generations and what they want to be doing. But I think, in terms of attractiveness and, to be honest, attractiveness at every level of of a career, but having that impact and purpose is something that that particularly attracting those new coming into the profession can be lent into, and sustainability is clearly something that has real potential to impact and have purpose. But I do think it needs to be real. Um, if I think of some of the companies that um we've worked with over the years, a few have said that they did such a good job of selling the fact that their organization was really setting their strategy and their purpose around sustainability when it came to them, the the day job.
Jessica Fries:Um, it was far removed from it and so finding ways to really join the dots of how, then, in your day-to-day work, can you be connected into that bigger purpose that the organisation might have. So don't over-promise and under-deliver, don't over-promise and under-deliver, but also really think about how whether it's some of the social dimensions or the environmental might actually be relevant to every part of what you're learning in your syllabus and, again, those career paths that enable you to do it very directly.
Ainslie van Onselen:Yeah, so on that. So we might have some young chartered accountants early on in their career listening to this podcast today. You're a chartered accountant, so uh, which is terrific. So what advice would you give to them? So say, if they are particularly, um, uh, you know, passionate and want to, like you have, find a, a niche in the sustainability sector specifically, what advice would you give to them to to make that happen?
Jessica Fries:so I think. So I think, look for some of those opportunities and they might be not always where you're expecting expecting them to be. So, if I think of you know my own journey, yeah, I, um, I started in the audit side of things, so in financial audit, um and I, which some people wouldn't have expected, right? Yeah, absolutely, and I was always interested. If I think of my academic um background, I'd always been interested in some of the sort of social impact, development impact and environmental economics, so I'd chosen some of those papers. But then I thought about which clients I wanted to work my way towards working with so I would get exposure to some of those different areas.
Jessica Fries:I got to know some of the people who were then working on some of the engagements and so gradually moved into that area somewhat intentional, exactly somewhat intentional, but um but a little bit of serendipity opportunities yeah and then and then was asked if I wanted to do a secondment and and help the then Prince of Wales to really take forward the work with A4S and and haven't looked back since. But I think it is making sure that you, you build, you know network, you build those opportunities, continue to embrace learning. I know that um, that a lot of the CAW um organizations have been developing training and there's loads of webinars yeah, at pace, yeah, and, and you know, loads of webinars, loads of webinars.
Jessica Fries:Yes, we have yeah, at pace, yeah, and you know loads of webinars, loads of events that you can go to, where you can build your knowledge and build your networks, and I think that knowledge, networks and the opportunity will come up.
Ainslie van Onselen:Yeah. So talking about networks, so as a CA, I'm sure you've perhaps seen some really inspirational CAs or chartered accountants that are working in the sustainability field or leading or advocating in this space. So do you have any examples that you could share with us that you've, you know, come across and been able to work with?
Jessica Fries:Yeah, absolutely.
Jessica Fries:I'll probably get in trouble if I name any one individual, because I have to say that I've been really lucky to work with, with a lot, but maybe, if I just um pick a couple of sort of extremes, so one would be, um, some of the members of our CFO leadership network. So one of the early things that accounting for sustainability did was was set up with, work with the CFO community. So those really at that, that um leadership end of their, their journey, um, but indeed also actually the, the the ceos we're lucky to work with from the accounting bodies and actually az, one of the things that you were talking about um when, when we were speaking earlier around how, as a leader, it's important to be bold, yes, and really push the envelope sometimes, yeah, and sometimes that can be really scary, and particularly in some of these areas when you're at a almost that that, that peak role it can feel quite exposing.
Jessica Fries:Some of these issues are new. People might not feel that comfortable with them, and so I think it's always really inspiring when you do lean into being bold and being willing to take a risk and speak up and also acknowledge when you don't have all of the answers, and I think that some of the cfos we work with have really demonstrated some of those yeah characteristics. But then equally, um, one of the things that we do is finance for the future awards. And back to those who are early in their in their profession. We, um, we've met some really inspiring individuals who are really at the start of their careers and if I think of some of the judging sessions that we've done, you've really felt that excitement in the room listening from some of those who have maybe already started to think through how they impact.
Ainslie van Onselen:And certainly, if there's anyone who knows an inspirational CFO or chartered accountant who's been active in the sustainability space and really inspirational, I would definitely encourage you to nominate them for the A4S Finance Awards. I think they're a terrific initiative and something that we should all support and get behind as well. And in terms of being bold with advocacy, yes, I think perhaps when I started four years ago as CEO of Child Accountants Australia, new Zealand, there was a sense of reticence among some of the membership as to why are you doing this? Why do you have a sustainability team? Why are you doing thought leadership papers?
Ainslie van Onselen:And one of the ways we found to address that was surveying our members and overwhelmingly the majority of our members like 85% of our members wanted tools and services and thought leadership and advocacy in relation to sustainability, and that gave us a really good, I guess, an explanation for those who were perhaps more sceptical of it, or naysayers, to say well, actually, the majority of our membership want us to do this, so we are driving ahead and pleasingly to say, actually we have less of that pushback these days, which is fantastic, but then just moving in terms of just perhaps going back on to some individuals and I know you don't want to name names, but have you got an example de-identified perhaps of of where a cfo or an accountant within an organization, within a corporate, has really used their knowledge and their sphere of influence to drive change and make change happen within an organization, because that sometimes as an individual you can feel a little bit powerless. But have you seen examples where you personally think is pretty inspirational?
Jessica Fries:yeah, absolutely well, and um, I mean maybe I should so, so, um, just pick I think you could pick any of the the um co-chairs of our cfo leadership network, but maybe, if I just touch on on one of them, so she's a CFO called Julie Brown. She's had an amazing career if you look at her yeah, her CV and so she's currently CFO of GSK prior to that, you know, know, and has had, uh, you know, an amazing track record. She's also on a number of boards and um really does, in the way that we've been discussing, step up and lead, but also, so, so, create that extra, extra space and time to make sure that she is not only doing her day job but really thinking about both how that day job and the things that she does beyond that have real, um, real impact in terms of that day job side of things. You know she's, she is definitely somebody who's looked at. Then back to the earlier discussion how, as finance professionals, as accounting professionals, can we use the skills and the influence that we have to drive change?
Jessica Fries:Yeah, so, um, there's a few. She's actually one of the. The other companies she's worked with have been past winners of the finance for the future awards, but just things like um, how do you embed into incentives and driving that through? How do you embed APIs and capital investment? So, really looking through the, the different actions that an organization can take and the different levers that, as a CFO, you can have but it's not only within the organization, it's also who else might you be able to influence. So, can you influence your peers? Can you influence the investment community? Can you influence you know, stand, engage with standard setters and regulators? So thinking who you can influence, what levers you have, and then making sure that you are creating the time to really follow that through and empower others to do so as well.
Ainslie van Onselen:Yeah, listening to that example of Julie, which she sounds fantastic. So I'll definitely look that up and we might put the showcase of that hopefully on our CAW website. But it kind of reminds me of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg who said if you want to drive change, bring others with you. That's not an exact quote, but that was kind of the meaning of what she has, so bringing other people along with you on that journey and inspiring them to also influence their networks.
Ainslie van Onselen:And on that, I mean I would have to say that Prince Charles then, as he created the A4S 20 years ago, was a visionary, and it would have been, I felt, and for you as CEO, for much of that time it would have felt like perhaps a potentially lonely place, and I hope that you're seeing some reward for all that hard work because truly we're in such a better.
Ainslie van Onselen:We've got a long way to go. I think, as you mentioned at the A4S summit, we still haven't quite scaled the mountain yet, but we're certainly't quite scaled the mountain yet, but we're certainly getting there and we're much, much further down the track now with solutions and frameworks and even seeing the technology changes that are happening in renewables, for example, we're certainly making massive, massive progress. Perhaps just with one final question, if I may, and that is particularly for cas and for chartered accountants how do you think they can enhance their own capabilities in this area, particularly for small, medium practices? That's something that came out of the summit. In terms of those large organizations as large multinationals, the big four, for example, accounting practices, you are probably potentially more ahead in this journey. But if you're a CA in a small, medium practice, how do you think they can equip themselves in getting the capabilities that they need? I mean, I certainly would obviously advocate some of the tools and resources we have on the CAW network, but I know A4S also has tools and services in this area as well.
Jessica Fries:Yeah, absolutely, and I think that that is always a good starting point is not feeling like you're having to start from scratch. There's a huge amount of work and tools and case studies and examples that are already out there. So absolutely a lot of the work that caw has done through our accounting bodies network, of which many of many of the caw members are also part of um, have been collating some of the work for the, specifically looking at what's relevant for the sme community, so on our knowledge hub and that's accessible. We've also done a lot, lot of work to develop an essential guide series so that really looks at each part of financial decision making things like navigating the reporting landscape guide, which just is a bit of a 101 on that whole landscape, all of the different acronyms that you might come across that can help people to get started, and there are a lot and a growing number of acronyms.
Jessica Fries:And then the final thing I would say is always to look at case studies and connect with others, because there are great examples of how people have responded. One of the best things to do is always learn from others. Steal the best ideas.
Ainslie van Onselen:Okay, so for anyone listening out there or I'm sure you are the A4S website sounds like the place to go to get some tools and services and and some inspiration from others in terms of what they've done as well, and the CAW network as well has some thought leadership on this issue as well. Getting close to time. So thank you so much for joining us and congratulations on all the amazing work that you do. It truly is me personally very inspirational, and to see the convening power of A4S as well, the calibre of the people that you bring to the table and the joint level of enthusiasm to really start pushing and accelerating change, is something that is just terrific to be part of.
Jessica Fries:So thank you. Well, that's a pleasure. Thank you, and likewise for your leadership and inspiration. I think it's absolutely what we need.
Ainslie van Onselen:Thank you, jessica. Thank you for sharing your insights and experiences with us today. Your work at A4S and beyond is truly inspiring and underscores the critical role chartered accountants play in shaping a sustainable future. We look forward to continuing this important conversation and working together to drive positive change. Thank you to our viewers for joining us for this special edition of Difference Makers. Discuss Live Until next time, stay safe and stay committed to making a difference.
