Resilience, Flow, And The Future Of Accounting

Ever feel like your day is a blur of pings, context switches, and late-night messages that steal your sleep? We sat down with Brad Hook and Declan Scott to unpack why the profession’s greatest strengths—kindness, curiosity, creativity—can be undermined by hypervigilance and constant multitasking, and how simple, science-backed rhythms can restore focus and energy.

We dig into the data from the inaugural global resilience and well-being report for Chartered Accountants and preview what the next survey aims to measure after practical interventions. Brad explains why “measure, train, measure” beats guesswork, and shares tactical calm tools that create quick wins: one-minute breath resets, bookending the workday, and clear evening boundaries. Declan brings an experienced lens to early-career overwhelm, showing how coaching-led leadership and mentoring across generations can reduce anxiety, build confidence, and connect daily work to real purpose.

You’ll learn how attention is being fragmented by constant digital stimuli and why monotasking outperforms multitasking for quality and speed. We walk through the conditions for flow—clear goals, the right challenge-skill match, protected time, and fewer distractions—and how teams can pilot weekly or daily “flow zones” to unlock meaningful progress. We also dive into sleep as the bedrock of performance, from chronotypes and consistency to practical checks for issues like sleep apnoea, plus everyday habits that recharge your mental battery.

The episode closes on presence—the underrated skill of pausing, widening your view, and asking what matters most right now. If you’re ready to replace false urgency with real effectiveness, this is your playbook for calmer focus, better sleep, and stronger leadership. Enjoy the conversation, then share it with a colleague who needs permission to switch off notifications. If it resonated, subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what single change will you try this week?

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage: Why Resilience
• 3:18 Key Findings From The First Report
• 4:35 Measuring, Training, Measuring Again
• 6:55 Daily Rhythms And Tactical Calm
• 9:50 Starting Out: Pressure And Overwhelm
• 13:11 Bridging Generations And Expectations
• 18:58 Coaching Cultures And Purpose
• 22:47 Attention Fragmentation And Monotasking
• 26:17 Nature, Energy, And Cognitive Load
• 31:46 Flow State As A Performance Lever

Transcript

Sinead Donovan: 0:23

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to everyone who has tuned into this episode of Difference Makers Discuss Live. I'm Sinead Donovan, and I am really excited for this episode. It is, I think, the first time that we've had a second bite of the cherry with two of our contributors. Earlier this year spoke to Brad Hook and Declan Scott, who co-authored the inaugural report um on global um resilience and well-being for chartered accountants worldwide, and looked at the resilience and well-being in the profession. And we um met with the two guys earlier in the year and dug into some of the report findings. So, what I would say is if you haven't watched that episode, what you need to do directly after this episode is go back and look at that episode because that will set the scene for the key findings of the inaugural survey and report. So some of the key strengths that the charged accountants had uh for dealing with res uh resilience was um creativity, altruism, and curiosity. Um and they were the ones that armed us well for resilience and well-being. But then I guess probably more importantly, some of the challenges that the um the survey found that charged accountants had were our ability or our need to constantly multitask, which kind of gave rise to hypervigilance and then gave rise or contributed to uh an inability to sleep or rest. And so what charged accountants worldwide have done is they've taken that report, they've created the well-being hub on the website, and they've given some tips, some learnings, some suggestions as to how best to arm ourselves as charged accountants to help in this need to be resilient in our profession. And the next part of the adventure is going to be a survey in Q1 of next year, 2026, and we will revisit to see if any of those interventions or learnings have helped with um with some of the results we see. And I'm delighted to say that Brad and Declan are gonna be involved in that, interpreting those results again and writing the report. So Brad and Declan, you're very welcome. That was a very long-winded introduction. So, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna turn to you, Brad, in the first instance, and just check if there's anything else you'd like to add on that summary of the initial report. And then maybe give us some insights as to what you might hope to see in the second survey or what you are seeing in the globe in general around the journey uh for resilience and well-being.

Brad Hook: 3:14

Well, thank you so much for having us. It's a pleasure to be here once again. So, from the original report, what really stood out, as you said, is this kind and curious nature of accountants and their creativity really shines through. And people don't often acknowledge people in the finance profession as being kind and curious and creative, but there is so much of that there, but not necessarily to ourselves. And it's those rhythms of resilience that can really support us, including some skills. And as you said, what might we discover in the follow-up assessment? Because our preferred process is to measure, provide some form of resilience training or intervention, and then measure again. We believe if we can measure something, we can take action, we get that insight. And what we usually see is improvements in daily rhythms. That's a quick win. Can I create some calm under pressure? And it can be as simple as a one-minute breathwork exercise, or can I create some space and boundaries, bookending the beginning and the end of the day? So there's a morning and an evening by design, which can make a huge difference. Remember what we practice is what we become. So if I practice uh multitasking, task switching all day long, high pressure, it's not going to go away just because it's 9 or 10 p.m. I'll still continue to practice these habits. So creating some rhythms of resilience, and we hope that we see some shifts, especially around sleep, uh, around tactical, calm tools that can really help everyone just to downregulate that nervous system response so that we're more calm, focused, and connected in the moments that matter. So these are all learnable skills when people have some kind of intervention. We usually see some great results. But I'll pass over to Declan.

Declan Scott: 5:14

Thank you, Brad. Hi, Shanid.

Sinead Donovan: 5:16

Hi, Declan. How are you? A fellow Irish charged accountant.

Declan Scott: 5:20

Yes, 30 years this year since I qualified. So I've got a few grey hairs now to prove it. And it's close to my heart, this topic, uh, having come through the profession and knowing the intensity that many young people experience as they go through this stage in their career development, and there's often a lot of uncertainty mixed in there as well. So I wish I'd known some of these things now, 30 years ago when I was coming into the profession and been able to establish some good building blocks, foundational building blocks and rhythms that would have no doubt helped me. And you know, many people coming into the profession, and there's so much variety now in the in the profession. It's not, you know, there's it's not the traditional path of just going into a practice. Now there's so many ways of getting involved. So trying to create uh, you know, some sort of support network for chartered accountants, young chartered accountants in particular, to help them deal with the avalanche of information and the choices, almost too many choices, and you know, the the overwhelm that we feel very much relates back to our cognitive overwhelm. And that is that's endemic across the world in all the companies. Uh, you know, I've I'm based in North America, and it's you know, every company I'm going into now, very, very similar trends showing up where people are really struggling under that weight, but it starts as a cognitive risk, and and then our bodies become overwhelmed, and we don't understand how to regulate our thought process, our emotional process, and very often it is back to coming into your body and really trusting your body and taking care of your body, taking care of the basics. And that's what I ignored for many years when I was younger and could get away with it. And so I think this is an important conversation to bring not only to the members themselves, but also to the leadership of today and their responsibility to support uh the next generation uh through that experience now that that we've we've gleaned from from those years and how to help people navigate this barrage of information. So I'm excited to see where the the next report, what it reveals.

Sinead Donovan: 7:37

Yeah, and I think you've touched on something really critical there, um, Declan. So I I was a partner in um uh a large firm here in Ireland for over 25 years, and a couple of things struck me from my experience as you spoke. The first thing is that that kind of need to be always switched on and to multitask, it's almost drilled in well, it is drilled into us from day one, as when we go to stand into the profession, and especially if you're in public um practice, um, because you know, time is money, um, and and and if you're able to do a number of tasks at once, um it's great. And what I'm seeing now is there's potentially a little bit of a crash is the wrong word, but sort of meeting of the generations, and so the leaders might still think that's the best way to go about it. But what I'm hearing from both of you is that multitasking and all of the pressures that come with that and all of the the the add-ons is not good for for for for anyone, but it's also not necessarily good for business. So, how do we as a profession kind of marry the leaders who might have grown up in that um environment with with the students of today who we're saying need to break that chain? Um how do how do how do we do that as a profession? It's a huge question, and I'm involved in education, so I'm I'm trying to know who wants to take that one.

Declan Scott: 9:04

Well, I will take it and then Brad will actually make it better. Is that the right word? He will give it the four-year review, but it's um you know the intensity of working, particularly, you know, on a charge, time-based charging. And you know, I remember when I was in the profession every six minutes, and there was this constant pressure to have to to demonstrate value. And I know I I came through the tax stream at the time, so it was always I was more obsessed with what I didn't know. I knew there were I like I knew a lot, but there was a lot I didn't know, so it was constantly having to kind of um see if I was doing it correctly. There was a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves as well, uh, and obviously this the structure of the profession is there to help grow people, and I think it's important to distinguish between performing and growing. Um, you know, we we often talk about performance and high performance, but I think what's a lot of young people now today, and I've got you know three, two teenagers, uh one just leaving university, and I know they're not lazy, they're not lazy. It's not that they're not willing to work hard, you know. My daughter's just done her finals and unbelievable pressure and work ethic. And so I feel very good about this generation coming in because they're tremendously passionate, and we've got to maintain that passion when they come into work, and sometimes it feels like to go from this learning growth mindset into performance, and I'm gonna do this same thing over and over again to be to become an expert in it, and so that specialism can be a really difficult transition for a young person where they've done so much in university and projects and juggling things and subjects, and then they're back, they're into a field that might feel quite limited, where they don't feel connected to a purpose, don't feel connected to a bigger outcome. So, for leaders to to really help people see that this is a growth journey, I think that's important to paint that picture as well, to help you know, really invest in people's well-being as well as their growth in what they possibly can become. Because literally, as a chartered accountant now, the world is your oyster. But it takes a while before you can actually look up and realize that from some of the mundane tasks you might be given when you enter the profession originally, where you have to be, you know, held to keep it safe and all of those things. So I think there's so much confusing messages for young people knowing who are impatient, let's face it. As a 20-year-old or 22-year-old, you want to know everything and you want to get on with your life, and and I think that's a hard environment to create safety for those people, also a growth path, a pathway for them to see possibility and to learn, uh, rather than just be performing routine or mundane tasks. And and ultimately the the leader themselves, and it it's important that if one's observing them, that they're living on purpose, that they are taking care of themselves. I think that was the thing that that finished me with the profession when I was working in practice. I looked at the leaders of the day and went, hey, I I could work really hard for the next 10 years and it wouldn't, that's where I'd be, and it didn't inspire me. And so I think it's really important that that we stand up to scrutiny ourselves in how we show up each day and how people observe us and whether we're the kind of leader that's inspiring people or not.

Sinead Donovan: 12:31

And yeah, yeah. No, and I mean I'm with you on the whole the current the or the Gen Zs or the Gen Alphas and everything. I I don't put them in the bucket of lazy at all. Um, I do think there needs to be some sort of a working relationship that is really harnessed between the the intergenerations to ensure they understand each other. Rad, do you want to add anything to that? Because it's such a huge topic that really influences everything going forward.

Brad Hook: 12:58

Absolutely. So what we do see is increasing anxiety amongst the younger workers. And that's across the board. It's not just our research that shows that, but uh, we do see, in fact, uh publications like The Anxious Generation. But and we see that ever since the introduction of smartphone technology, young people have increased, experienced increased anxiety and worry and distress. However, as a leader navigating this changing world, first what we recommend is you know be adaptable, recognize that everyone has different working styles. And in fact, for over 20 years, what we've discovered is those leaders scoring highest in resilience do model the rhythms of recovery, performance, care, performance, care. And what we mentioned in our latest global report is perhaps consider a culture of coaching. So instead of that top-down leadership approach, understand each person in your team, understand what motivates them, what gives them a sense of purpose and passion and what energizes them and what are some of those risks. And we use our resilience assessment for exactly this purpose because it uncovers factors that you may not have even considered, and really get to know them. And that's that affiliative leadership style. And ignite that sense of purpose because if you can align what people are doing day to day with something bigger than just KPIs or performance, you know, we're actually helping people solve complex problems, enhancing their experience of work in life. Wow. Well, suddenly we found a way not to manipulate, but to connect what someone is doing, the grind, with something greater. And being able to adopt that coaching mindset, as I mentioned, you know, what would it take for you to reduce your distress and anxiety? How could we create some rhythms that will help you and boundaries in the evenings? This is perhaps the key to supporting Generation Zed and Generation Alpha who are coming very, very soon. But I think emotion regulation skills, as we said before, these things are all trainable. So provide some interventions for your young people and then connect what they're doing day to day with purpose and consider you as a manager or as a leader adopting the mindset of a coach.

Sinead Donovan: 15:23

So one of the things I want to unpack there that you said is you mentioned that this um younger generation or GNZ have increased anxiousness, and and and that's I'm not surprised with that. Um as a mom, as a as a as a former uh leader of a firm, my gut is that is something to do with the avalanche of technology, of social media, of immediacy. Um, and to me, therefore, human connection is really critical to balance that. And that might be the per the purpose that you're talking about. But I guess my question to you is as leaders, is that human interaction and human connectivity really important to try to flatten that anxiousness for them?

Brad Hook: 16:10

Absolutely, and we've seen some great examples of this where in some consulting firms where we've worked, we discovered that Gen Z females were scoring really low, whereas those over 50 were scoring really high. So by understanding that, there was an opportunity to create some mentorship and create some connection. Additionally, absolutely, and Declan can expand on this because I know he's done a lot of work in the area, but social media is definitely fragmenting our attention. The some recent research suggests that on average, adults, so this is across the board, can maintain focus for around 47 seconds before becoming distracted. 47 seconds happens to be about the length of your average real or short. So this idea of scrolling, which has become habitual, has fragmented our attention combined with multitasking, which we all struggle with, as revealed by our latest global report. We are as fragmented as ever. We jump from task to task to task. Often there's this phenomenon of mental residue. A little bit of the previous task remains with us and we don't always loop back. It's becoming more and more challenging than ever to stay focused. But again, attention control is a trainable skill. Monotasking, the opposite of multitasking, uh, can make a big difference if we can just really try and focus on one thing at a time, creating space for perhaps scrolling. I think that we should all just build that as a rhythm into the day. It's not realistic to say stop doing that, that practice that we all have introduced into our lives. But perhaps it's about time for flow state, which is our high performance zone, then time for connection, those meetings that are really important, then time for emails and communication and scrolling and creating some rhythms over the course of the day. So it's not just everything all at once. But I know Declan's done a lot of work in this area.

Declan Scott: 18:12

Yeah, I was um I went out for a walk this morning in the forest behind me, as you can see. And uh, you know, some countries are very good at supporting their people to get out into nature, to create space, to create uh opportunities to reconnect with the rhythm. And I suggest it's the rhythm of the earth, the rhythm of the world, the you know, the the seasons, everything, everything works in rhythm. And so we have become very exposed to to many different medias all the time. So I think this cognitive risk I mentioned earlier, that we look, we're in a world where you can be constantly in the go mode, as you mentioned, the constantly on. And if you don't establish some rhythm and discipline in that, it's going to be very difficult for you to regulate, to emotionally regulate. And it feels like a constant overwhelm. Now, the interesting thing is emotions affect our physiology more than even thoughts do. And so when we're in an emotional roller coaster, it's affecting our body. And the more that you can do to get back into your body, and whether that be to connect with nature, to create you know some discipline in our workday and in our teamwork. You know, the our report talks about this that you know, with the blurred lines between work and home now, there's I think it was Brad, 16% more after 8 p.m. calls and 50 messages after hours on average, and you know, we're getting interrupted every two minutes, and like in some cases up to 1200 um different, you know, things each day that we're switching between. And so when you think about the average human, we're not designed for this. This is not in our design. So it's it's not that as such, it's a human limitation, it's not a skill set, it's a human limitation that if we could have overcome it by now, we would. Just like we if we could have overcome needing sleep, we would. We'd have done it without sleep by now. And so it is part of our biology that we actually cannot continue working in this manner and do so effectively. And it is draining, it is draining a lot of our resources. And look at your body like a battery, a car battery, it's an energy source. And so the more that you can work on managing your energy actively and including the sleep in that, including your movement, including exercise, rather than constantly feeling you're you're just drinking from a fire hose, that's important. Um, none of us do it terribly well when it comes to this particular area of you know, intensity, multitasking, hypervigilance, worry, all of these things that we're all very, very familiar with. Our younger generation are even more exposed to it. You know, when you get to my age, it's like you've got a little bit more composure and maybe connection to your meaning and you have a different perspective on it. But when you're vulnerable and at that early stage of your career, and it's it's like what you think I have to do, I have to keep up with everything, and there's huge expectations on ourselves, it is difficult to navigate. As I said, I think on our reports, Brad, was it uh maybe the best performers were still only at 31% on multitasking, it was like a very practical percentage. And I'm seeing it in every company where they think that it's about multitasking and being in building in intensity to get things done, it actually isn't, it's it's more about um slowing down to go fast. Or, you know, I I love the a quote by I think it was Herbert Simon, who was like a wealth of information uh creates a poverty of attention, and that's the world that we live in, is we're in an attention-deprived environment. And so when you start to practice and build that attention control and realize that there are a few daily habits that you can start to bring in, you realize you can get back in control of your life, which feels so good when you feel out of control a lot, and and that's what we're pointing at. These are learnable skills because performance comes down to your capability plus behavior, and your behavior brings out the best or the worst of your capability. I did a keynote on this for CAW a couple of years ago in New York, and it was that was the title of it Leadership Performance is Capability Plus Behavior, and it's important that we understand our behaviors every day affects that.

Sinead Donovan: 22:43

Yeah. There is there's so there's so much there, and actually, one of the biggest takeaways I did take from the first podcast you did, and and and the uh learning interventions or teaching interventions that are up on the well-being hub of charge counties worldwide is this monotasking um uh I was gonna say phenomenon, but it's not, it's it's a behavior. Because we have been it's been it's been built into us that multitasking is the best way to be productive. And you know, there's the old adage women can multitask and men can't, and and and all that. But I'm gonna stop that now because saying that and kind of championing multitasking, because I really do believe and and I can see there's something in that you know to monotask and perform well. And where I also see it, and I'd be really keen to hear your views on this, is kind of the um the convergence of sport and business. Because I've just read a uh a fabulous sports book by one of our Irish professional rugby players here, and he talks about the flow state and how get into the flow state, but you can only be in that flow state for a certain period of the match, and and how they can maybe try and best get into the flow state at the right stage. But you mentioned it there, Brad, about the flow state for life or for business. So you but you can only get into that flow state if you're effectively monotasking and focusing on one task. Is that right?

Brad Hook: 24:06

Absolutely. There are some clear criteria that can help you cultivate your flow state. First and foremost is a clear goal for the task at hand. If I'm already fragmented and my attention is being captured by little notifications and distractions and calendar invitations and emails and so forth, I won't even create the conditions for flow. So, first is a clear goal. Second is skills to match the challenge. Too many skills and I get bored with this particular task. Too few skills and I'll probably get anxious. You want the right amount of time. So 90 minutes turns out to be about the maximum for most people, which is why you see most football matches, rugby matches are 90 minutes with a very strategic break in the middle. Tennis players who sustain flow for longer have lots of micro breaks through the game. What can we learn from that? And we want to minimize distractions from our environment. So that might require putting the telephone on airplane mode, actually just turning off Outlook notifications or Teams chat notifications for that hour or 45 minutes or 90 minutes if you're brave, and then really just going for it. So there are criteria, and flow is an a performance accelerant. If you think about it, McKinsey research suggested inflow were 500% more productive. A team inflow doubles their productivity, but it's not just about productivity, it's intrinsically rewarding. It feels great. If you've ever had one of those afternoons where you finish the task, you lose track of time, you feel good afterwards, you feel energized, a sense of momentum, you are in flow state. And it doesn't have to happen just through urgency or by chance. We can create pockets of time over the course of the week. I often recommend start with Friday flow, 11 a.m. So you've checked your emails, you're not going to break all of your habits immediately, but between 11 a.m. and lunchtime, create your flow zone for you and your team and ask them to work on their most important, not urgent tasks. Companies like Google have proven that by enabling flow, you get some incredible inventions. In fact, uh Google Maps and Gmail were invented by people at Google working on their passion project on a Friday. So what could you achieve by creating these rhythms? And then perhaps it becomes flow zone daily. And it's during peak alertness, perhaps between 9 and 10 a.m. It can create huge momentum within an organization, but it again, leaders need to model this behavior, not just tell people to do it.

Declan Scott: 27:58

That's right, particularly, you know, we keep referencing the younger generation, and I know that's probably an age where we start to develop some of those habits that we carry through our life, and and with good reasons, uh, you know, it changes as we get older. Quality, quantity, you know, regularity, timing, uh, is all really important, particularly around rhythm. We talked about rhythm earlier, so sleep is one of the key factors. We, you know, here in the United States, we uh we changed our clocks last week. It's it has a huge impact on people, you know, even to the point that there's an increase in cardiovascular incidences and it it results in more strokes. And you know, a very practical Irish example here, you know, in in Europe um when they're milking cows, they start a month beforehand, adjusting the timing of milking by two minutes a day so that the cows aren't literally dry when the clocks change. And so everything is in rhythm. And so if we can align our rhythm, you know, we've all we're all different chronotypes, so it's not that there's one perfect example that you're meant to be in bed by 10 and up by six. Aim for 78 hours is great. But what I realized with all the the science backing and Matthew Walker's work and everybody else, I was I was noticing in myself just recently fragmented sleep, and it was not within my control, which again is a part of the challenge. We don't accept that we're not sleeping well or we're tracking in it and we're waking up being being obsessed now with with sleep, and we're we're able to measure it now with the the wearable devices like never before. So I think we're now aware of things like the impact of coffee or alcohol and and the effect of even um you know working late at night. All of this is very measurable now, but what I noticed of late is my own sleep was affected by by sleep apnea. So, you know, I went to to the dentist to get it checked out and did a sleep test, realized that my tongue wasn't sitting in my mouth properly overnight, so it was waking me 15 times an hour. And I was wondering why I was waking up tired, even though I was endeavoring to follow all the guidelines. So I really encourage people to go get it checked out. We've all got, you know, we're all got different factors going on. But sleep is one of the biggest contributors to energy. You know, you can you can manage a lot more when you've had a good night's sleep. It's one of the impacts, particularly on leadership, the perception of leadership, sleep is a major factor where people can sense, you know, if a leader is, if there's even more confidence in leaders that have slept well. And it's interesting that many leaders um, you know, are supporting, you know, we don't need sleep and uh sleep when I'm dead type thing. But it's uh I think the message is getting changed with with that book and with uh Matthew Walker's podcast as well, and a lot of other uh people talking about this subject is a huge, huge area.

Sinead Donovan: 30:55

So so the simple answer is what we need to do to get to uh ensure we get more sleep is just be sensible and listen to the facts and listen to the science and actually make sure we build in the time to get that sleep. Um Brad, can I ask that you leave us with an encouraging message, with a positive message, with maybe some you know, some of your a go-to tip to help us uh score high in the resilience uh frame that you you mentioned um earlier? Just the best tip that you could possibly give us.

Brad Hook: 31:31

I think that presence is such an underrated skill, and presence is an interesting phenomenon. It's being open to the world. How much of our time do we spend fully engaged, often juggling, switching between lots of tasks in that zone of, you know, perhaps we're nudging into chronic stress? We're certainly in that peak zone in terms of our physiology and how it's handling the challenges of our of our days and weeks and months. Can we cultivate some opportunities for calm presence, stepping back from the noise, taking a wide angle view of what's going on in our environment, noticing others, if you're a leader, actually noticing how people are doing, activating your emotional intelligence to notice those subtle cues of fatigue and anxiety and worry, and just being there for others, being open to what may unravel in your environment. It's it's such a powerful skill, and it's been talked about for many, many years, you know, taking the balcony view, uh reflective inquiry, just asking yourself what's the most important thing to focus on right now? And it can make a huge difference. Those intentional pauses, whether you use a breathing exercise or whether you use some time in nature, whatever works for you, but stop, disconnect from the noise, take a wide angle view and ask what's the most important thing to do right now?

Sinead Donovan: 32:59

Superb, superb advice to professionals, to parents, to employers, to everyone. Um, and thank you very much for that. Um, Brad and Decclan, I look forward hugely to the next report, to the next global report, um, which I know is launching very soon, and there's some interesting um findings coming out of it. And um for charter accountants members, please look out for the survey that will be launched in or the the repeat survey that will be launched in Q1 of 2026, because it is really important that we try and track um this resilience um uh scoring for the profession. So, gentlemen, thank you so much. I know you're at opposite ends of the globe, and I'm stuck in the middle here. So enjoy your day, enjoy your evening, enjoy your afternoon, and to everyone that has stayed tuned in, I hope you enjoyed it. There is some fascinating learnings here, and so much more to come when the report comes out. Goodbye and good day.